In a high use setting like grid storage, the cost per charge cycle is a more important metric. Many lithium systems are only rated for ~1000 deep cycles. Since this redox-flow system is advertised at 10,000 cycles, it could end up being much cheaper overall.
I googled it, e.g. "Since 2014, the cost of completed packs has crashed from $400/kWh to below $200/kWh for some stationary storage systems, he says. Similar reductions have hit the automotive market. GM has said it’s paying LG $145/kWh for the cells in the 2017 Bolt battery pack." http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-i... Several other websites mention 200USD as the price Tesla pays for the packaged cells.
If this can be proven to work it could be a real difference maker to smooth out energy swings. I don't know about other areas but here in Michigan we have a number of abandoned salt gypsum and ore mines that would all be candidates for this technology.
Which is about 10 times the power and more than 10 times the storage of the proposed battery.
It's currently used to shift baseload generation from nighttime to daytime, but it could be used to store solar for evening and nighttime use.
The only real blocker to siting more is that people freak out about local environmental disturbances. It's about 1.5 miles of shore out of hundreds of miles of dunes.
> German researchers had developed better components for a large, stationary battery that used negatively and positively charged liquid electrolyte pools to exchange electrons through a reasonably priced membrane.
Seriously? If those electrolyte pools were substantially charged, the electrostatic forces would be humongous.
Yeah, that's messed up. Not only that sounds like a capacitor's description ("negatively and positively charged pools") rather than battery's, but also "liquid electrolyte" is a patent tautology.
I remember that there were also plans to use the old coal mines in the Ruhr area as water pump storage batteries. I don't know if this was just an idea or if someone did a study on how feasible this would be.
> According to Bloomberg, North Rhine-Westphalia State Governor Hannelore Kraft recently confirmed that a project to turn the coal mine into pumped storage will move forward after mining activities have stopped.
120 M€ [https://www.pv-magazine.de/2017/06/22/ewe-plant-bau-eines-ba...]
750 MWh
------
160 € per kWh.
LiIon is currently at ~170€/kWh (200USD). LiIon prices will drop more until 2023 but 160€ is still a very good considering this is a research project.
In a high use setting like grid storage, the cost per charge cycle is a more important metric. Many lithium systems are only rated for ~1000 deep cycles. Since this redox-flow system is advertised at 10,000 cycles, it could end up being much cheaper overall.
Tesla Powerwall battery is $5,500 for 14kWh. That's $392/kWh.
Where do you get the $200/kWh batteries from?
Why the downvotes? I have not found a source that will provide me with Li-Ion cells (without battery management systems) for < 300 USD/kWh
You're comparing a small consumer product to a large industrial installation? Tesla's Powerpack is an industrial-scale system.
Tesla Powerwall is a consumer product.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
Large installations are a different product:
https://www.tesla.com/powerpack
Right, and the big industrial system I'm referring to is the flow battery described in this article. Which I'm sure you read.
Possibly bulk pricing?
I googled it, e.g. "Since 2014, the cost of completed packs has crashed from $400/kWh to below $200/kWh for some stationary storage systems, he says. Similar reductions have hit the automotive market. GM has said it’s paying LG $145/kWh for the cells in the 2017 Bolt battery pack." http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-i... Several other websites mention 200USD as the price Tesla pays for the packaged cells.
Wow, this sounds like a promising concept I've never heard of before.
To me, the main three questions are round-trip efficiency, max storage time and environment impact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery mentions 75% to 80% efficiency, though I don't know how well that applies to such big systems.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.194... mentions a better environmental profile compared to lead acid batteries, but that might be a low bar.
If this can be proven to work it could be a real difference maker to smooth out energy swings. I don't know about other areas but here in Michigan we have a number of abandoned salt gypsum and ore mines that would all be candidates for this technology.
There is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludington_Pumped_Storage_Power...
Which is about 10 times the power and more than 10 times the storage of the proposed battery.
It's currently used to shift baseload generation from nighttime to daytime, but it could be used to store solar for evening and nighttime use.
The only real blocker to siting more is that people freak out about local environmental disturbances. It's about 1.5 miles of shore out of hundreds of miles of dunes.
> German researchers had developed better components for a large, stationary battery that used negatively and positively charged liquid electrolyte pools to exchange electrons through a reasonably priced membrane.
Seriously? If those electrolyte pools were substantially charged, the electrostatic forces would be humongous.
Yeah, that's messed up. Not only that sounds like a capacitor's description ("negatively and positively charged pools") rather than battery's, but also "liquid electrolyte" is a patent tautology.
I remember that there were also plans to use the old coal mines in the Ruhr area as water pump storage batteries. I don't know if this was just an idea or if someone did a study on how feasible this would be.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/german-coal-mine-may...
> According to Bloomberg, North Rhine-Westphalia State Governor Hannelore Kraft recently confirmed that a project to turn the coal mine into pumped storage will move forward after mining activities have stopped.
I've been hearing about Vanadium flow batteries for a long time, and it would be great to see them finally deployed on this scale.
The plan is to get it up and running together with Berlin's new airport.. :P