That's a great interview. I saw Anthrax when he was still in the band many years ago, when they toured with Public Enemy. I have the sense that not many top pop/rock/rap musicians are able to recognize the impact of touring on family and leave that career. The late singer of Talk Talk, Mark Hollis, was the same.
And I had always wondered about this:
Watchmaking is an ergonomically horrible job, you are hunched over, your arms are falling asleep, and you are just asking for carpal tunnel syndrome. The first thing new watchmakers should save for is not tools, but a really good bench.
The pictures still show people hunched over tables, though, squinting at tiny parts. How much can a good bench do?
I saw them on the Persistsnce if Time tour, opening for Maiden. Of course they had a giant clock on stage, probably influenced by the watches.
Speaking of ergonomics, why do they hunch over with eye loupes when inspection microscopes with over 12” of working distance are available? I have hand placed 01005 parts, so why don’t they use them for watch making?
If you have a proper hand rest under the inspection scope, you can do very fine movements while sitting upright.
It could be a matter of depth of field and viewing angle. I build tiny things - boards with parts down to 0406
and also 3D assemblies of small parts. I use a long range digital magnifier for PCBs but it's necessary to use a head mounted loupe for 3D assembly due to depth of field and the need to view from different directions.
I would have thought they'd address that by having a movable stand/holder for the part - so they could easily spin/tip it around while keeping it in the optimum place for viewing (rather than moving your head/eye around to look at the right place). Of course I know nothing about any of this, but it seems like it would be easier for the user. Maybe I'm missing something about the hands not being available for that movement (pedals then?). Just interesting to think about.
0402s are much easier. the key is to keep your tweezers clean so that parts don't stick to them, which will happen if you have flux residue buildup. also, make sure you have a good set of tweezers.
you can use cheap reading glasses from walgreens if you need some magnification. I found that it was much easier for me pre-LASIK when my vision was -3.5.
00 stainless tweezers and 2x-40x stero microscope will be fine down to 0201. Eventually you’ll need a demagnetizer for the tweezers. For 01005 you’ll need ceramic tweezers.
"I have the sense that not many top pop/rock/rap musicians are able to recognize the impact of touring on family and leave that career."
There's a great doc called 'The other F word' where a bunch of famous and semi-famous hard touring musicians talk about the impact of their career choices on having a family. It's quite hard to watch at times. I appreciate this is totally off the watch making topic, but worth viewing if you're interested.
This story reminds me of George Chakiris who won an Academy Award for his role as Bernardo in West Side Story. He became a jewelry designer later in life.
"Time has always been part of my music. Consider the song “Got the Time”… Time has always been part of my life and it will never go away since it is a wonderful remembrance of my Pop-Pop. Sadly, everyone has the time on their phone today and timekeepers have shifted from a need to an extreme luxury."
It seems absolutely ridiculous to assert you're the only one on Earth that can talk with authority about "a correlation between music and watchmaking." You don't need to be a highly successful musician turned master watchmaker to talk intelligently about that. There are surely many other people that know a lot about both music and watchmaking. For example, just me, n size 1, I have a friend who formally studied music and collects high end watches as a hobby and has built his own geared watch. I'm sure he could comment intelligently on this question. Not really understanding the downvotes here.
It didn't seem like he was saying "yeah I guess I do have a really rare perspective", it seemed like he was literally saying "I'm the only one." Maybe he's even the best person in the world to ask, if you could only ask one person. But the only one? Maybe his comment was playful/less literal, but it didn't come off that way to me.
As others already mentioned, there's hobby and beauty to them.
But for an actual practical point where mechanical watches outshine their electronic counterparts: they can be insanely robust and reliable, as in, working for literal decades, basically non-stop, with generally 21600 mechanical movements per hour. And those are not specifically high-end ones. A decent quality 80$ watch from good stock will last a long time, and with proper maintenance potentially lifetimes.
I recently bought a mid-range automatic and switched from a lower-end quartz watch. While the quartz is absolutely less effort; you don't have to ever worry about winding it, there is something magical about the precision engineering of automatics. The second hand sweeping is really beautiful.
My daily, and only, wristwatch I wear is a stainless steel Seiko "5" self winding mechanical with a steel wristband.
My parents bought me for my 16th birthday in 1983. I think it cost around GBP100.00 back then. These days the thing runs fast and slow sometimes by up to 20 mins over a week but I do have a rough idea what time it is (once a week I reset to actual time). For me that's fine, 99% of things in my life are not that time critical.
With the exception of a replacement face glass (circa 1986, my Dad's fault :) ) and a replacement spring pin for the wristband clasp doodah, it's all original and has never been opened.
If I do need to check the "real time", say for attending a meeting (not often), I just have a quick look at my phone or computer.
The reason I keep wearing this inferior timekeeping piece is because I like it, like the simple design and enjoy it for sentimental reasons. For all my waking hours it's been through motorbike crashes, getting lost on a mountain, it went to one of my parent's funerals, signed my marriage certificate and then signed my divorce papers :) and much much more. It's more than just a less "superior" timepiece.
I doubt a "superior" timekeeping piece by Apple or some such other technology company would last as long, acquire the patina my Seiko has and the patina of my life in terms of memories and experiences (this thing is now older than half my life now).
there is a lot of wisdom in art, and a lot that goes beyond just the aesthetical aspects of it. Mechanical timepieces are appealing to people for different reasons. Some enjoy the luxury aspect as it can be enjoyed as much as jewelery, others enjoys the engineering part of it as it can see as a wonderful machine, very precise and delicate, others like the little rituals involved, winding it up for non-automatics or looking at the inner workings by exposed complications, and others link it to memory as those timepieces pass through generations of their famillies. Time keeping is just part of it, not its whole.
Aesthetics, the graspable ingenuity of the engine formed of mere gears and a spring. The artesanal dimension of the mechanical engine... That is attractive.
Besides, no batteries to change, ever, so a mechanical watch is zombie apocalypse proof too, and more environmentally friendly.
As for accuracy, yes, there are better sources of timing than mechanical or quartz crystal clocks. If one wanted achievable timing accuracy on the go, a GPS timing radio controlled clock would be the one to use. But would it be practical? Would it look nice? How much battery would it consume? And the most important question: would you need that kind of microsecond level accuracy?
Similar to retrocomputing, mechanical watches can be a fun hobby, and there is an active and relatively big community dedicated to modding and finding rare vintage watches. Here are a few videos that may spark your interest:
I love watches, and usually wear a Vostok. It’s a very inexpensive Russian automatic (mechanical, self-winding). It was about $100, and certainly isn’t a “luxury” watch in the sense that a Patek would be - but I like wearing it, because of what it is.
It’s hard to explain. It’s a piece of extremely precise engineering that almost feels organic in some ways. If I’m in a quiet place and calm I can almost feel it tick. I can feel the pendulum move to wind itself when I reach for something. In some small way it’s almost alive.
That's a great interview. I saw Anthrax when he was still in the band many years ago, when they toured with Public Enemy. I have the sense that not many top pop/rock/rap musicians are able to recognize the impact of touring on family and leave that career. The late singer of Talk Talk, Mark Hollis, was the same.
And I had always wondered about this:
Watchmaking is an ergonomically horrible job, you are hunched over, your arms are falling asleep, and you are just asking for carpal tunnel syndrome. The first thing new watchmakers should save for is not tools, but a really good bench.
The pictures still show people hunched over tables, though, squinting at tiny parts. How much can a good bench do?
I think by (work)bench he means the work table as a whole - one of the photographs shows his table with ergonomic cutouts and pads.
I saw them on the Persistsnce if Time tour, opening for Maiden. Of course they had a giant clock on stage, probably influenced by the watches.
Speaking of ergonomics, why do they hunch over with eye loupes when inspection microscopes with over 12” of working distance are available? I have hand placed 01005 parts, so why don’t they use them for watch making?
If you have a proper hand rest under the inspection scope, you can do very fine movements while sitting upright.
It could be a matter of depth of field and viewing angle. I build tiny things - boards with parts down to 0406 and also 3D assemblies of small parts. I use a long range digital magnifier for PCBs but it's necessary to use a head mounted loupe for 3D assembly due to depth of field and the need to view from different directions.
I would have thought they'd address that by having a movable stand/holder for the part - so they could easily spin/tip it around while keeping it in the optimum place for viewing (rather than moving your head/eye around to look at the right place). Of course I know nothing about any of this, but it seems like it would be easier for the user. Maybe I'm missing something about the hands not being available for that movement (pedals then?). Just interesting to think about.
The digital magnifier is the problem here. Try a decent stereo vision optical scope some time, it's crazy handy for PCB work.
>I have hand placed 01005 parts
Any more details you'd care to share? I was thinking of a project to use some 0402 LEDs in a pattern, and I've been balking at it.
0402s are much easier. the key is to keep your tweezers clean so that parts don't stick to them, which will happen if you have flux residue buildup. also, make sure you have a good set of tweezers.
you can use cheap reading glasses from walgreens if you need some magnification. I found that it was much easier for me pre-LASIK when my vision was -3.5.
00 stainless tweezers and 2x-40x stero microscope will be fine down to 0201. Eventually you’ll need a demagnetizer for the tweezers. For 01005 you’ll need ceramic tweezers.
I was wondering the same thing. Most jewelers don't work this way anymore either.
"I have the sense that not many top pop/rock/rap musicians are able to recognize the impact of touring on family and leave that career."
There's a great doc called 'The other F word' where a bunch of famous and semi-famous hard touring musicians talk about the impact of their career choices on having a family. It's quite hard to watch at times. I appreciate this is totally off the watch making topic, but worth viewing if you're interested.
In that first photo, he's seems to have somewhat morphed into Scott Ian ... also of Anthrax. :)
Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGHsxMqpL0c
This story reminds me of George Chakiris who won an Academy Award for his role as Bernardo in West Side Story. He became a jewelry designer later in life.
https://georgechakiris.com/
And I quote
"Time has always been part of my music. Consider the song “Got the Time”… Time has always been part of my life and it will never go away since it is a wonderful remembrance of my Pop-Pop. Sadly, everyone has the time on their phone today and timekeepers have shifted from a need to an extreme luxury."
Anthrax was also guest starring in Married With Children
Q: Is there a correlation between music and watchmaking? A: I am the only one that could answer that question.
I enjoyed most of this article, but wow, what an arrogant response.
Why is that arrogant? Are there an awful lot of highly successful musicians turned master watchmakers?
Seems like an obvious comment to make about being rare as hen’s teeth.
It seems absolutely ridiculous to assert you're the only one on Earth that can talk with authority about "a correlation between music and watchmaking." You don't need to be a highly successful musician turned master watchmaker to talk intelligently about that. There are surely many other people that know a lot about both music and watchmaking. For example, just me, n size 1, I have a friend who formally studied music and collects high end watches as a hobby and has built his own geared watch. I'm sure he could comment intelligently on this question. Not really understanding the downvotes here.
It didn't seem like he was saying "yeah I guess I do have a really rare perspective", it seemed like he was literally saying "I'm the only one." Maybe he's even the best person in the world to ask, if you could only ask one person. But the only one? Maybe his comment was playful/less literal, but it didn't come off that way to me.
>Maybe his comment was playful/less literal, but it didn't come off that way to me.
Why?
Is there a correlation between fame and arrogance?
I don't know. Maybe. A quick Google search yielded no studies asking that question. Or was your question rhetorical?
What is the point of a mechanical watch when there are far superior methods for timekeeping?
What's the point of a random comment on the internet when there are far more efficient ways to spend one's time?
As others already mentioned, there's hobby and beauty to them.
But for an actual practical point where mechanical watches outshine their electronic counterparts: they can be insanely robust and reliable, as in, working for literal decades, basically non-stop, with generally 21600 mechanical movements per hour. And those are not specifically high-end ones. A decent quality 80$ watch from good stock will last a long time, and with proper maintenance potentially lifetimes.
I recently bought a mid-range automatic and switched from a lower-end quartz watch. While the quartz is absolutely less effort; you don't have to ever worry about winding it, there is something magical about the precision engineering of automatics. The second hand sweeping is really beautiful.
My daily, and only, wristwatch I wear is a stainless steel Seiko "5" self winding mechanical with a steel wristband.
My parents bought me for my 16th birthday in 1983. I think it cost around GBP100.00 back then. These days the thing runs fast and slow sometimes by up to 20 mins over a week but I do have a rough idea what time it is (once a week I reset to actual time). For me that's fine, 99% of things in my life are not that time critical.
With the exception of a replacement face glass (circa 1986, my Dad's fault :) ) and a replacement spring pin for the wristband clasp doodah, it's all original and has never been opened.
If I do need to check the "real time", say for attending a meeting (not often), I just have a quick look at my phone or computer.
The reason I keep wearing this inferior timekeeping piece is because I like it, like the simple design and enjoy it for sentimental reasons. For all my waking hours it's been through motorbike crashes, getting lost on a mountain, it went to one of my parent's funerals, signed my marriage certificate and then signed my divorce papers :) and much much more. It's more than just a less "superior" timepiece.
I doubt a "superior" timekeeping piece by Apple or some such other technology company would last as long, acquire the patina my Seiko has and the patina of my life in terms of memories and experiences (this thing is now older than half my life now).
"why sing when you could yell and be heard much further?"
People like beautiful things, and some machines do have a hypnotic kind of beauty.
why paint when you can take a photo?
there is a lot of wisdom in art, and a lot that goes beyond just the aesthetical aspects of it. Mechanical timepieces are appealing to people for different reasons. Some enjoy the luxury aspect as it can be enjoyed as much as jewelery, others enjoys the engineering part of it as it can see as a wonderful machine, very precise and delicate, others like the little rituals involved, winding it up for non-automatics or looking at the inner workings by exposed complications, and others link it to memory as those timepieces pass through generations of their famillies. Time keeping is just part of it, not its whole.
I don't think you should be down voted, you asked a good question. I don't think everything has to have a "point".
Aesthetics, the graspable ingenuity of the engine formed of mere gears and a spring. The artesanal dimension of the mechanical engine... That is attractive.
Besides, no batteries to change, ever, so a mechanical watch is zombie apocalypse proof too, and more environmentally friendly.
As for accuracy, yes, there are better sources of timing than mechanical or quartz crystal clocks. If one wanted achievable timing accuracy on the go, a GPS timing radio controlled clock would be the one to use. But would it be practical? Would it look nice? How much battery would it consume? And the most important question: would you need that kind of microsecond level accuracy?
You could rephrase and ask "What's the point of art in human society?"
Similar to retrocomputing, mechanical watches can be a fun hobby, and there is an active and relatively big community dedicated to modding and finding rare vintage watches. Here are a few videos that may spark your interest:
Building A Vostok Wristwatch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-JMoUoMtXo
How does a mechanical movement work?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYM4PpiTcEA
9S Movement Manufacturing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0hR9jagpSM
What's the point of diamond rings, necklaces, earrings, etc...? A mechanical watch is jewellery, art, and as such also a status symbol.
You know how there are expensive chairs that look really nice, but which don't provide any benefits over a regular chair? Same idea.
You don't buy a mechanical watch for maximal timekeeping utility. You buy it because you appreciate it as a form of art.
From the article: "A luxury watch is an expression, just like your car, or your house. It is an expression of your being."
Status, and in some cases art, but mostly status.
Satisfaction, too.
I love watches, and usually wear a Vostok. It’s a very inexpensive Russian automatic (mechanical, self-winding). It was about $100, and certainly isn’t a “luxury” watch in the sense that a Patek would be - but I like wearing it, because of what it is.
It’s hard to explain. It’s a piece of extremely precise engineering that almost feels organic in some ways. If I’m in a quiet place and calm I can almost feel it tick. I can feel the pendulum move to wind itself when I reach for something. In some small way it’s almost alive.
I guess you could call that art.